Conjuring Self-Confidence Feat. King Moe
I can't think of anyone better to teach about
conjuring confidence in yourself than King Moe!
Moe is an incomparable photographer, a force of nature,
and the creator of LOVE YOUR SELF(IE)™️.
Hanging with her is just inspiring,
and I'm so excited to share our conversation with you!
Subscribe! Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Pandora | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn
Mentioned:
Moe's website, imkingmoe.com
and her Instagram, instagram.com/imkingmoe/
Make Magic:
As Moe says: everything that we need
for success, for love, for joy, for beauty,
for whatever, you name it, it’s already inside of us.
But it’s up to us to actively seek it, activate it, and maintain it.
Transcript: Conjuring Self-Confidence Feat. King Moe
King Moe: The biggest lie that we’ve been told—I just recently posted this—is that what we need is outside of ourselves. I feel like everything that we have, that we need for success, for love, for joy, for beauty, for whatever, you name it, it’s already inside of us but it’s up to us to actively seek it, activate it, maintain it.
Natalie Miller: And I love that word “activate” actually because it’s not that you get the confidence and then you do the thing; you do the thing to get the confidence. [laugh]
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: One hundred percent.
[Music]
Natalie Miller: Welcome to Mind Witchery. I’m your host, Natalie Miller, and I’m so glad you’re here.
Natalie Miller: Hello, my darling. Welcome to Mind Witchery. Today, I have a conjuring episode for you. And a conjuring means that I have invited another bad-ass witch to join me, and to talk about conjuring some kind of quality. And, so, I cannot think of another person, actually, more perfect to talk about conjuring self-confidence than the one and only King Moe. Hello, Moe.
King Moe: Hey, hey.
Natalie Miller: Hey, hey. [laugh] Moe is an incredible photographer, and she’s also just a force of nature and spirit. To hang with her is to just be inspired. It’s like you are all the way in your body and skin, Moe. That’s how it feels to me. So, welcome. Welcome to Mind Witchery. I’m so glad that you’re here.
King Moe: I’m happy to be here.
Natalie Miller: So, really, our intense experience together—yours and mine—was me booking you, hiring you to take photographs of me. And I have talked about this a couple other places that I—like, I’m going to say almost every woman, especially women in our 40s, have a very fraught relationship with our bodies and our appearances. But I knew that I needed to work with you because I had already felt—seen, yeah, but like felt—the difference that the way you bring someone into a shoot makes. So, would you just like talk a little bit about how the hell you had me—
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —feeling so sexy and like—
King Moe: [laugh] She’s crawling on tables and shit. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I was crawling on tables.
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Don’t worry, everybody. We’re going to—I’m going to put in the Show Notes a little behind-the-scenes video from the shoot.
King Moe: [laugh] Oh, my god.
Natalie Miller: But, like, how do you do that?
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: How do you help women feel so confident?
King Moe: I got asked this question in my last podcast interview, and I don’t really have a solid answer. It just comes through me. It’s me being all of myself, and just showing up as me, you know, free and [0:03:39] pretty much, which gives—I feel like it gives other women permission to be themselves. For years and years and years, I’ve told myself I want to get paid to be all of myself as I help others become more of themselves. And it’s pretty much what I do. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Full stop right there. I want to get paid to be all of myself, and to help others become all of theirselves.
King Moe: Yes.
Natalie Miller: Me too. That’s what we do. [laugh]
King Moe: Yeah, and it just comes in different modalities. Like, one way that I do it is through photography, and then the other way that I do it is literally just showing up in a room, and just literally being myself. I didn’t even know I had that power till probably about eight or nine years ago. I’d say I never—I didn’t own that power. I knew it existed but I didn’t own it, and I didn’t start owning it until about eight or nine years ago when my business—when I opened my business. And then over the course of these years, it’s just been me just continuously stepping into it, you know, over and over. And I feel like as I step into it, I bring more people along.
Natalie Miller: OK. So, this right here is exactly why you and I are perfect to be talking about this. That’s why I love it so much. When you started owning it, how did you do it? How did you start to own that inspirational power? Because I think that’s key to confidence.
King Moe: I’ll say this straight up. It was a process. It’s been a process, and it’s been with me—the biggest thing for me has been canceling out outside noise; questioning shit that I was taught and told; and redefining things for myself. I feel like so many times as women, we look to other people. Of course, I’d say that I’m a permission-giver but I don’t want to say that in the sense like, hey, I grant you permission, you know, because a lot of the times, we’re taught to look to other people for our confidence, for our approval, for all of those things.
And I feel like when I started to cancel out that noise, that’s when I started to grow stronger in myself. And that’s what I’ve done over the past—over all these years. So, it’s been a process of personal development, and sitting with myself a lot. [laugh] I spend a lot of time alone. People see the big, huge personality. They see what I’m able to help and inspire other people to do. But they don’t see the work that goes into maintaining this, you know, over time.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. So, digging into that first piece around canceling out the outside noise—I mean, because it is, it’s true, right. We are so conditioned to look for approval, to look for permission, to be attuned to what other people think and feel, right?
King Moe: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Miller: Like, I mean, that—we are socialized that way, especially as women but, really, with anyone who’s sort of, you know, not granted [laugh] full autonomy by our societal structures. In my work, so many people will be really interested in stepping into, like, a coaching container where they know that the coaching is going to help them do what they really want, or step into a photoshoot with you where they know that they are going to be in front of the camera; that they’re going to be seen and showing up. And I think about how so many people will put conditions on that, right?
King Moe: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Miller: It’s like, well, when I lose the weight; when my hair grows out; when—
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: —whatever it is, right? So, for me, it’ll be like, you know, when I make the money; when I get the kids out of the house. It’s like it’s all conditional, right? And, so, part of what I’m hearing you say there is that when you cancel out the outside noise, you’re also sort of like removing some of those conditions. What do you think?
King Moe: Canceling out that noise, removing those conditions, because I feel like the biggest lie that we’ve been told—I just recently posted this—is that what we need is outside of ourselves. I feel like everything that we have, that we need for success, for love, for joy, for beauty, for whatever, you name it, it’s already inside of us. But it’s up to us to actively seek it, activate it, maintain it.
Natalie Miller: And I love that word “activate” actually because it’s not that you get the confidence and then you do the thing; you do the thing to get the confidence. [laugh]
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: One hundred percent.
Natalie Miller: Right? It’s not like, OK, let me feel beautiful. Then I’ll do the shoot.
King Moe: Right.
Natalie Miller: Right? Let me feel ready to make this big change. Then I’ll invest the coach. It’s like, no, actually, book the shoot. Then you’ll feel beautiful. Get the coach. Then you’ll feel ready to make the change [laugh], right? Like, that’s the way that it goes.
King Moe: Yeah, it is.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, and that does—I mean, I totally agree with you. Like, I think that what we have is inside of us, wanting to come out. But, for me—and I don’t—you disagree with, please. For me, that activation, it is actually a cocreation, for me, right? Like, to activate it, I got to be taking action in the world, like making an offer, or making an investment, doing a thing. But what do you think?
King Moe: I feel like it can go both ways, for me, definitely. I feel like we’re all here cocreating at pretty much [laugh] every level, whether we’ve realized it or not because, I mean, we’re all connected. We’re all just energy, dense matter, whatever.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: But, for me personally, I feel like that cocreation doesn’t necessarily have to be attached to someone else or something else—directly attached, I should say. And I say that because I spend so much time alone, and I’m not saying this is for every…I get called a hermit.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
King Moe: I get called all these things, y’all. [laugh] And I’m not saying this is for everybody. But I do feel like that time alone—whether you’re connecting with spirit, animals, plants, whatever—I mean, it’s still cocreating but with you as the center and the focus.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: Yeah, I guess that’s what I’m trying to say—
Natalie Miller: Yes, ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
King Moe: —you as the center, as the focus, not those other things or people or whatever.
Natalie Miller: Yes, because, like we said, in cocreation, we are encouraged to put ourselves last on the list. It’s like let me take care of my parents. Let me take care of my kids. Let me take care of my team. Let me take care of my neighbors. Let me take care of my friends. And then if there’s any left over, which, of course there never fucking is.
King Moe: I’m here for self-prioritization.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: And this is—I am so here for self-prioritization, and I’m not here for this—for it to be called selfishness. I’m so over that shit. Prioritize yourself, prioritize your joy, otherwise, like, what—like you just said—what do you have left? You get the crumbs. I don’t want y’all to get the crumbs. I was tired of the crumbs. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Me too. Me too. So tired of the crumbs. It’s interesting. Like, I think that idea of self-prioritization, like, yeah, what all is in there? It’s like prioritizing my health—oh, my gosh, right—because—I don’t know—you definitely show up so boldly and brightly. And, you know, it’s funny. You’re talking about the time that you spend alone. For me, I also like to be alone, and my alone time is like recharging time.
King Moe: It is, one million percent. I have to have that time to recharge. If I don’t take that, I don’t have anything to give. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: I just don’t.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, because I think when I’m in the world, when I am with someone, I am fully with you. Like, I am über-present. And I felt that in our shoot when you were taking pictures of me, like, I felt thoroughly supported. Like, you were so in it, in the experience with me, in the joy and the excitement, in all of it.
King Moe: And that’s why when I’m done with a photoshoot, I can only do so many photoshoots a month, guys, because when a photoshoot is over, like, I’ve given so much, like, it literally takes me like two days to get back to me, or get back to my neutral. But it’s not coming from an empty place. It’s coming from like—I don’t even know how to describe it. Like, I’m in a trance when I’m on a set. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Yes.
King Moe: I don’t know no any other way to describe when I’m working with someone. It really is an energy exchange.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: That’s what it is, yeah.
Natalie Miller: Well, that, you know what I love, it’s like you clearly love it. Like, you can feel the joy and love that you have for it. And I feel the same way in coaching. It’s like I am now a channel instead of, like, just like a contained entity. It’s like I’ve opened—and this is like—this is a theory, right? This is a theory of creation and artistry, right, is to sort of say that what we’re doing when we do what we really love is we’re remembering how enormous we are, right? We’re getting access to that bigger energy that you kind of pointed towards. It’s like what are we really?
King Moe: It’s like bouncing off the wall 20 feet out like a radius, like, I promise you. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Totally, and it comes through the image. It comes through the prose. It comes, like, through the creation. So, how do we get to that place where we get to channel, where we get to kind of open up to that big, big energy so that that can come through? Because that’s what really makes everything, just everything expand.
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: That’s what brings the money in. That’s what brings the happiness, everything. So, how did you get there, Moe?
King Moe: I would say, for me personally, pay—start paying attention to those things that bring you that über just sense of self and sense of joy, and tap into that. Like, for me, it was me going back to shit from my childhood. Photography and the transformation style of photography, yeah, I’ve been doing this since I was a kid—literally—since I was a child. And, of course, I allowed me chasing a dream, an American dream, you know. I went to college, got the degree, went to the corporate world, did all the shoulds, but never truly gave myself permission to tap into the things that I wanted to do—and I kind of forgot about them.
So, sometimes, you just have to literally go back to, like, the basics, and figure out—allow yourself time to question and figure out what truly brings you joy. What lights you up? Like, what sets your soul on fucking fire? What does that look like for you? What does that feel like for you? I’m a feeling person. I’m literally if shit don’t feel right [laugh]—
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Yes.
King Moe: Oh, my gosh, before when it didn’t feel right, you know, when I was—I felt like I was in let’s say the matrix. When it didn’t feel right, I would still push through because it was what I should do. It was what I was supposed to be doing.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: Now, I allow myself to be like, nah. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, yeah. Well, they kind of tell you, right, they kind of tell you, “Oh, yeah, feeling right is actually—it’s just past that finish line, right. So, just get that promotion, and then it’s going to feel right.” And you get that promotion, and you’re like, “Actually, this place still fucking sucks [laugh], like.”
King Moe: It still sucks, and that’s what happened. Like, I had climbed that corporate ladder. I was with the same type of company for almost 14 years. I had about seven or eight jobs within those 14 years, just trying to make it work for me.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: Just like, I’mma go here, and try this. This’ll make it better. I’mma go here, and try—no, no, it wasn’t. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah. You know, I—this is something I definitely resonate with in you also, actually, is that part of what I recommend and coach around is, like, you can just start doing what you want on an everyday basis.
King Moe: I’m here for that. This is—
Natalie Miller: Right? Yes.
King Moe: Do what you want. This is—
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Do what you want.
King Moe: Oh, my god, OK—
Natalie Miller: I know.
King Moe: —I got the best compliment ever in my life. My best friend came to my house last week, and I was literally doing whatever I wanted to do in the middle of the day. And she was like, “You live like a retired person but you ain’t retired.”
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
King Moe: I was like, “This is the best ever!”
Natalie Miller: Yeah, you’re like yeah.
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Well, it’s so funny. I talk about that in coaching all the time, how one time, I saw this television commercial, and it was like these people were like—they were going up to this like—I don’t know—there was like this glass structure in a park. And they were going up to it, and they were drawing like a sailboat, and then the sailboat would come alive. They would go up, and they would draw like a garden, and then the garden would come alive. I was like, oh, my god, this is so beautiful. What is this commercial about? Retirement plans. [laugh]
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I was like [laugh]—
King Moe: But that’s the shit they sell us. They sell us we got to wait until we’re like 70, 80 to enjoy life, and to—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: —have all these things. I’m determined to do that now on my own terms, on my own timeline.
Natalie Miller: I love that so much, yeah.
King Moe: I love doing what I want. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, me too. I love—when you realize, OK, I want to take a nap, and I can’t because I have meetings this afternoon. OK, meetings this afternoon isn’t working for me, right? I want to be able to have an open morning, an open, spacious morning where I can like meditate, or have coffee and journal, or whatever the shit we want to do, right?
King Moe: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Miller: And it’s like, oh, but in the mornings, I have no help getting the kids ready, right? I don’t want to say, oh, it’s just so simple. No, you’ll have to make changes, right?
King Moe: Right, that’s true.
Natalie Miller: You’ll have to make some changes. But doing what you want is—it’s kind of like a divining rod, right? It’s going to help you figure out—
King Moe: It’s possible.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: Just knowing that it’s possible, I feel like so many women, especially, don’t even give themselves, you know, that permission to even know what’s possible. They constantly think, oh, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t. But there’s ways in there that you can, you can, you can, you can. And as you find more of those ways, you build that confidence to do and do and do differently or more. And that’s how it happened for me.
Like, even with my business, I realize when I first started this business, I structured it like the business in the business that I came from, you know. I had these hard deadlines, hard timelines. I worked from here to—I’m like why? And it took a moment to realize, hey, all you’re doing is modeling what you just came from. How is this helping you? It’s got your name on it, that’s all. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
King Moe: So, how is this different? And then I started, you know, I don’t want to work on weekends. I’m a photographer. I don’t shoot on weekends. Other people will look at me like I’m crazy as hell. “You’re a photographer.” “No, that doesn’t work for me.” I shoot on Tuesdays and Thursdays because those are the days that work for me.
Natalie Miller: Totally.
King Moe: And I kind of structure—not kind; I do structure my life. It’s very unstructured but it’s structured with a lot of freedom. But this has come with me doing little things over time to even to get to this retired at 44 but not retired—
Natalie Miller: Yes, totally.
King Moe: —lifestyle, you know. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Right, right, yeah, working and living exactly how you want to work and live, yeah, it’s beautiful. So, I think that one of the things that comes to mind there for me is that’s another way that that conditioning to look outside of ourselves comes in, right?
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: So, I had someone once who was like, “OK, this is what you need to do. If you want a successful podcast, you need to batch-record. You need to choose a day of the month, and you need to sit down, and you need to record all your episodes.” And I was like, “Nope.” Thank goodness, I know by now. No, batch nothing works for me. What works for me is, last week, I’m like, “Ooh, I want to talk to Moe. Hey, Moe, you want to talk next week?” And Moe’s like, “Yeah, let’s talk next week.” And here we are.
King Moe: Inspired living is what I’m calling it. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes, inspired, and meaning like it has the spirit in it. It’s alive. And, listen, if batch recording works for you, you do you because that is so—
King Moe: Yeah, exactly.
Natalie Miller: That sounds lovely. But that doesn’t work for me. And you would be amazed, Moe, because this is what I do for a living. I help people hear what they want to do, and do it. [laugh] It’s like—but you would be amazed how—well, you wouldn’t because you know. That’s challenging.
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: Right?
King Moe: There’s so much unlearning in here. There’s so much shame, guilt. Like, all the things get used against—we use it against ourselves. It’s used against us, and then we use it against ourselves.
Natalie Miller: We do, yeah.
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, because the way that works, right, is like let’s say somebody tells you, “No, Moe, you have to photograph on the weekend. Like, you’re a photographer. That’s what photographers do.” So, you force yourself to do it. And because you’re not feeling it, the photos are not great, right, and you don’t feel good, and then you don’t have—
King Moe: And my energy is this compacted. It’s here. It’s not here.
Natalie Miller: Exactly, right?
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: But the way that the conventional wisdom would have it is, oh, you must not be a very good photographer, right?
King Moe: You got a block there. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: You’ve got a block, right. Yeah. So, for me, it would be like if I tried to batch-record this shit, Mind Witchery would not exist because I can’t work that way. It can’t. Listen, I have no deadlines. I have a commitment. I will release an episode every Thursday. But when I will record that, and how I will record that, I don’t really know. That has to be open because me, like you, I need a lot of freedom.
King Moe: If I don’t have freedom, I literal…I shut down. I shut down. And this is kind of on a tangent but I just feel moved to say this. When I first started my business, of course, I sought the help of experts. And I just first started up until probably like a year and a half ago, again, looking outside of myself; not truly trusting myself. I’m hiring coach after coach, program after program. When I get in there, none of this stuff resonates with me, so I don’t do it. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: And even if I do do it, again, it’s done in a way that I’m not really feeling this. So, of course, it’ll maybe pay off a little bit. But there was nothing about that that I could maintain. So, ultimately, it was not—it wasn’t helping me. I had all this knowledge, all these templates, all these blueprints that work for other people. It wasn’t until I sat with myself, and was like, look, I need you to honor what you do, what you know is right, and what works for you. And that’s when things really started to move for me, and open up, and expand for me—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: —is when I stopped looking at what everybody else was doing, stopped looking at these people as knowing more than me. All I needed to do was truly tap into more of me, and put that out to the world.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: I don’t know where that came from, y’all, but I just had to put [laugh] it out there.
Natalie Miller: No, well it’s—but it’s so key, right, because that’s the way that I coach. That is what—that’s exactly what I want to do, is to help people say—OK, let’s say I hire an advisor. Let’s say I hire someone to help me. I hire a consultant. I hire an advisor. I’m still going to show up, like you said, with me at the center. So, when they say, “OK, here’s what we have to do,” you say, “Wait a minute. I don’t want that. This sounds good. This doesn’t sound good. I’m still going to tap into me because this is actually not about what you think is going to work. This is about what I feel good about.”
King Moe: Feel.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: Feel. I feel like those feelings can carry you further than those tactical, strategical shit, yeah. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah. And it’s a reason, right, that we have to find amazing cocreators. We have to find people. Like, if we—like you said, we’re cocreating all the time, and so if I do want help with something because I can’t do everything myself—
King Moe: Right. This is true now. I’m not saying that, y’all. I’m not saying that. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, yeah, right? So, it’s like, OK, I got to find the people where I know that it’s not about them; it’s about me, right? Like, they’re showing up in a way that’s actually meant to support me, and they are listeners of me, right?
King Moe: Not just tellers of me what to do because they did it that way.
Natalie Miller: Exactly.
King Moe: You know, a lot of the times, those people come into position, and they’re highly regarded, and they just get used to telling people what to do instead of listening—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: —and then responding, you know.
Natalie Miller: I think you do that in a shoot. What I feel is you listening, feeling into—this is how I felt with you—listening to me, feeling into my energy, and moving with that. So, even, like I remember, I came in with all my stuff, and you were like, “OK. I think this is going to be the order of things.” And then I know that changed because of how it was feeling, and what we were making together, yeah?
King Moe: I love to leave room for that because you just never know. And then I do, I read—and it’s not something that I can tell you guys how I do it. But I read energy and, again, I’m not always right, but I read energy, and we just kind of go with the flow. It’s a dance. My photoshoots are literally a dance with my muse, and just kind of feed off each other.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. I think that there’s something about you showing up in that way, and doing that that, like, (a) opens the channel, right? So, I mean, some people, I think, think, oh, confidence is I always know what to do. And I’m like, no, I don’t think that’s what it is because, actually, some of the times when I did the thing that was not the best to do, helped me build confidence because I did that thing; I did not get the result I expected; but it didn’t destroy me, like.
King Moe: But did you die [laugh] of that thing?
Natalie Miller: I did not.
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah. Right? And in the end, I chose me, right? So, I don’t think, yeah, confidence isn’t like, OK, I know exactly what to do. I have the plan. What is it then?
King Moe: It’s not rigid.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: Confidence isn’t rigid at all. I don’t feel like confidence is rigid.
Natalie Miller: No, I don’t think so either.
King Moe: And when you see rigid confidence, it’s not real. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Yes. When you see unfailing confidence, that shit is a mirage [laugh], yeah, because it’s alive, right. I looked up the etymology of it. I love looking at, like, you know, the origins of words. And confidence is self-trust.
King Moe: Damn, there you go.
Natalie Miller: Right? Fidere is like—sorry, Latin folks, if I didn’t say that right. But, like, it’s self-trust. Like, it’s not confidence is, oh, I always win. I’m perfect. Like, well, no—I mean, yes and no, right, because perfection has its mess in it.
King Moe: Or I’m always right, you know, that—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: —that sense of perfection, yeah.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I’m always right. It’s like, in a lot of ways, for me—what do you think of this—in a lot of ways, for me, my self-trust is actually fortified by times I’ve been wrong and turned it around; times I’ve been wrong and—
King Moe: Yeah, you nailed it.
Natalie Miller: —kept going anyway [laugh], right?
King Moe: It’s that point of reference. For me, it’s that point of reference. Yes, I’ve fucked this up before but I’ve also figured things out on top of that. I’ll be fine. Literally [laugh], that’s how my life works. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, mine too—mine too. And, so, it is, it’s like this living, breathing thing. So, how do you feed it? How do you feed this animal? [laugh]
King Moe: Oh, so many different ways. First of all, I’m always doing something, even if I’m doing nothing. So, I feed my mind with good words in books—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: —and surroundings. Like, if you see my home, my home is, like, it’s my Zen place with my plants and just things that matter to me. I read a lot, guys. I read books that I feel like help me to help myself, and help me to help other people. I work a lot, but most of my work is on myself. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: It’s not work for the rest of the world. [laugh] Most of my work is on myself in some way that brings me joy.
Natalie Miller: But I will say though, I think that like working on ourselves is for the world because—
King Moe: Well, yes, it is for the world but it’s not for the world.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: That’s what I meant, yeah. It’s for me but, yeah, the world gets the benefit.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yeah, and the world gets to benefit because the world has a very imbalanced way of looking at someone like you, right, to imagine that, oh, this is someone who’s here for everyone else. And, so, when you are working on you, it is, it’s a revolutionary act, right?
King Moe: Very much so.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: Very, very, very much so.
Natalie Miller: I also feed my confidence through reading books, podcasts, those kinds of things—also travel.
King Moe: Oh, honey, let’s not even go there. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I know.
King Moe: You knew what you was doing. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I know. I knew.
King Moe: You just woke up the beast over here. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] I know, right? But, right, and that’s actually been—well, you have traveled. I’ve traveled a bit in COVID. You’ve traveled a lot.
King Moe: I traveled all of COVID. It’s been probably the most traveling that I’ve done. But traveling—again—traveling, being in these different places, even if I don’t speak the language, I always try. But even if I don’t understand anything that’s going on around me, to be able to exist in a place where I don’t speak the language, I don’t know the people, I don’t know the land, and still feel—I’m still there, and I still feel safe, to me, that’s self-trust. That’s all kind of confidence that I navigate these different continents by myself. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes, oh, my gosh.
King Moe: That, yes, travel feeds my soul. Travel definitely feeds my confidence. And I encourage other women to travel more. I’m not saying you have to be a solo traveler. I just happen to love solo travel. But if you can take some time for yourself, even if you go an hour away, get away.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: Do it. That hour will turn into two, will turn into a flight, will turn into a different continent. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes. Oh, my gosh, I am so with you on that. And, you know, for me, there’s like various magical ingredients. And, like, one of them—like you said—is just like, wow, look at how resourceful I am. So, even when I can’t—I don’t know where I am, and I don’t know what people are saying, and I can’t read the signs, I’m fine. I’m OK. I’m resourceful. I can figure it out. And, really, so much of it comes down to that, right? Like, I can figure it out.
King Moe: Oh, my gosh, you nailed it. And it’s like, like, when I’m in other countries, yeah, like I said, even if I don’t speak the language, I can always communicate with people. There’s always a way to communicate with people. And I just trust myself that I’m going to be able to communicate, I’m going to be able to have what I need, and vice versa, and I’ll be good. And then I also have those points of references to go back to that continue to, like, solidify the journey and the confidence.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. You know, something that comes to me here too is that, like, something that, like, our reading and our creativity and our traveling all have in common is it just reminds us how big the world is, and all these things that are possible.
King Moe: Yes.
Natalie Miller: Right? And if it’s possible in the world, it’s like, oh, it might actually be possible for me.
King Moe: I believe in unrealistic [0:33:19] possibilities. I believe in all the poss…I’m one of those people that feels like if I dream it, it can be done. If I desire it, you know—and I want that for other people because I see so many people, especially women, that limit themselves, that limit their dreams, that limit what they’re capable of before they even give it a try. And, like you said, with that action, you build that confidence. As you try, you just continue to level up.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. And in the beginning, it might be like, you know what, I’m not going to work on Friday afternoons. It might be really little, yes, so—
King Moe: You don’t have to start big, take these big, quantum leaps, guys, you know.
Natalie Miller: No.
King Moe: I’m a big-stepper but it starts with a small, baby step, most of the time. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It does. It starts with a small, baby step to just say, well, OK, let me just—like, what do I want right now? Right now, I really want a tea from my favorite tea place, so I’m just going to take a break. I’m going to go get my tea, and I’m going to come back. And it’s like that little, tiny step—I think—it’s you practicing doing what you want.
King Moe: And how you want to feel. How do I want to feel right now?
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, yeah. It’s you seeing that you actually have a say in how you feel.
King Moe: Yes, empowering.
Natalie Miller: It’s you seeing that the world does not fall apart. Like, actually, you are not holding up the world. [laugh]
King Moe: No. We put a lot of that on ourselves, like.
Natalie Miller: Oh, yeah.
King Moe: So much of that shit is—it’s not necessarily what will happen; it’s our imagination. But we live our life like it’s the end-all, be-all. And you give yourself that coffee break, that teatime, the world didn’t fall apart. Hmm, what else you’re going to give yourself the next time again? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Exactly, exactly. It’s like could you go away—
King Moe: Right.
Natalie Miller: —for the weekend?
King Moe: Right.
Natalie Miller: Could you go away for the weekend? Could you go to Peru for three weeks? [laugh]
King Moe: Hmm, right. Could you go to Mexico for a couple of months? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: [laugh] There you go.
Natalie Miller: Yes. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, entirely. OK. So, let’s do a little review here. So, number one, self-confidence is built through action. It comes when you do the thing; not before you do the thing. You have to do the thing to get it, basically.
King Moe: And the thing doesn’t have to be climbing a mountain, y’all.
Natalie Miller: Right.
King Moe: Like, it doesn’t—the thing does not have to be this huge monster of a thing.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: It could be like a little minion of a thing.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, yeah, and an asterisk here, right? Like, here, we’re saying like do what you want, easy. Do you what you want. Please know we know—Moe and I know—the whole world is set up to tell you that what you want is unreasonable, selfish, not possible, all those things. So, we don’t mean to say, oh, yeah, no problem. It’s easy. We mean to say, oh, no, no, we see the obstacles. But we also—we jump over them every day [laugh] and you can too.
King Moe: Go around them. Duck them. Dodge them. I mean, you know what, then you become really agile and limber, y’all.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: And then life gets real good. [laugh] It just keeps getting good. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes, yes, yes. OK. OK. So, you got to take action. You got to do what you want. It is not about being perfect. It is not about never making a mistake.
King Moe: Not at all.
Natalie Miller: Actually, the mistakes will be even more valuable.
King Moe: The mistakes will feed you guys. They will feed you. They will be good food. They might—it might not taste good going down, but it’s good nutrients. How about that? [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It’s [laugh] very—yes—very nutritious—very nutritious, right?
King Moe: Yes.
Natalie Miller: And then self-confidence is it’s this living thing that we have to feed.
King Moe: And there’s ebbs and flows with it too.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: Understand that, guys. We all need those reminders. We all need that time and space to get back to us. It’s not you’re just constantly pushing forward. I’m confident, I’m confident, like, up this continuous uphill thing.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: It’s going to go. It’s going to flow.
Natalie Miller: Oh, it’s totally going to go because, sometimes, we do things—tell me if this resonates with you, Moe—but, sometimes, we do things where we make a big, big expenditure from our self-confidence account. [laugh] So, where it’s like—
King Moe: Oh, you’re good.
Natalie Miller: OK.
King Moe: You’re good.
Natalie Miller: Right?
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It’s like, OK, I’ve been building this. I’ve been doing what I want. I have energy. The world doesn’t fall apart when I do what I want. So, what I really want to do is end this business, and start another one. So, what I really want to do is hire a PR agency, and start showing up on television. Maybe you know someone who is really—
King Moe: I’mma going to say it. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Right? Yeah. And, so, it goes from, “Oh, look at me on my website,” to, “Oh, look at me on daytime television.”
King Moe: Can I give y’all a story about me and daytime TV?
Natalie Miller: Do it, do it.
King Moe: I’ll just give y’all the real for real. OK. So, recently, I was on national TV, daytime TV, on the Tamron Hall Show. Big moment. Wasn’t nervous. Natalie was up in there with me. It was so cool.
Natalie Miller: I was.
King Moe: So dope. And then I rode that high. I rode that high. About two weeks later, I crashed.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: Crashed. I said, I don’t want this shit no more. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Right, yes.
King Moe: It got to be so real. Like, it didn’t hit me in the moment. It didn’t hit me for a couple of weeks afterwards. And I was literally like I don’t know if I really like this. I don’t know if I really want this. But I think so much of it was my confidence container had just got depleted. I needed to refuel—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: —because now I’m back like it’s never—you know, like, now it’s like, oh, what’s next? I’m ready for this. But a lot of reality started to hit me at once. A lot of reality started to hit me at once. A lot of people started to, you know, be in my ear. It was just a lot, so I had to get back to myself, center myself, get all that back. So, now, I’m here to say, yes, I love it again. But there was a moment where I had a complete meltdown—
Natalie Miller: Yes, there was a moment.
King Moe: —shutdown, like, no. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: That ebb and that flow. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah, and it often does come—I mean, that’s why it’s like trust us [laugh], the successes are harder in some ways to integrate than the failures.
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Like, the failures, I’m like, OK, I can learn from here. The successes, it’s like—
King Moe: Wait a minute.
Natalie Miller: —who am I? What is this like? Yeah, it can be really disorienting, for sure, yeah. OK. So, I love this last kind of piece that also, like, Moe is here on team alone time. Self-confidence, you’ve got to, like, check in with yourself. You got to be alone. You got to, like, really kind of recenter.
King Moe: I say go within. I don’t want people to think you have to be—because not everybody can handle it, handle solitude the way that I love solitude, and I understand that.
Natalie Miller: We are all different, yeah.
King Moe: But at some point, know that what you need is in here, and not out there, and it can look different. How you spend your alone time, how you go within, make it work for you. It may not mean sitting in a room in silence like I do. It could be in a coffee shop by yourself or, you know, whatever. Make it work for you. Your life is completely customizable, and I want people to know that.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, absolutely.
King Moe: It doesn’t have to look like me. It doesn’t have to look like Natalie. Make it look like you. Make it work for you.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I love it. I love it so much. And, so, and I love this idea of, like, checking in. Like, how am I feeling? How does this feel to me? That—
King Moe: What do I need?
Natalie Miller: That piece, yeah? And then I will—I think this complements; doesn’t contradict—but I will say, also, choose cocreators who can help you step into yourself.
King Moe: Yes.
Natalie Miller: Right? Because I chose Moe. I chose to get my pictures taken with Moe because I could just feel a power in her work that I had seen glimmers of in me, and I was like I need some help bringing this out. I can feel it inside but I need help bringing it out.
King Moe: It’s like two fuses kind of like—
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: —you know, you bring something, I bring something, and here we have this spark, you know.
Natalie Miller: We have a spark, yeah, yeah. It’s so, I mean, it’s beautiful, right? And, so, choosing those cocreators—whether it’s like the author of the self-help book that you’re reading, or the host of this podcast that you like, or the photographer that takes pictures of you, or the coach that is going to help you to self-orient—
King Moe: I agree.
Natalie Miller: —right, not a consultant where it’s all about them; a coach who’s going to help you orient toward yourself, and to hear what you’re saying.
King Moe: I’ve definitely had that, and I—so, I speak to a lot of this alone, this silence but I’ve had the coaches that—the cocreative pieces, the energy-healers, like, all of those that have helped me get to this space, that helped me maintain this. I do not do this alone. I have a whole—I know it may seem like it. But I have a team of what I call avengers that support me on this quest. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I love it. I love it. Yes. Oh, I have a whole healing squad team. They all—
King Moe: And it looks different.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: I have a skate coach, like, my skate coach, roller-skating coach. I have a swim coach, an energy heal…like, I have all these people that help me add to me.
Natalie Miller: And do you know what I love is that these people in the world—my people too—like, I have an intuition coach. I have an [laugh] energy coach. I have a mindset coach. You know, all of these people are also doing what they want—
King Moe: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —and what they love. So, it’s—
King Moe: That sounds great.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
King Moe: Yes. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Moe and I now are basically—like, we are jumping, dancing in our chairs, because, right, this is the thing. Y’all, we can build this.
King Moe: Yes.
Natalie Miller: We can make this world.
King Moe: Oh, I’m about to cry, y’all. I just saw this whole utopia of everybody being themselves, doing what they love, sharing their gifts, and helping other people. Like, that’s what it’s all about. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It’s possible. It’s possible. We can build it.
King Moe: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: We can build it, right. But I will tell you this. Like, no one is going to build it for us, and they—
King Moe: No.
Natalie Miller: —kind of can’t because we’re all necessary, right? We’re all necessary.
King Moe: Ooh, I love this.
Natalie Miller: I’m not going to get this quotation right, but Barbara Sher, who’s one of my favorites, she’s like an OG self-help lady. She says something like, “You must follow your dreams—you have to—because we are all depending on you to do that. If you don’t do what you want, if you don’t do what’s possible, you’re fucking it up for us.” [laugh] Right?
King Moe: Yes.
Natalie Miller: It is actually you doing what you want—
King Moe: That’s what changes the world, y’all. Believe it or not, that’s what changes the world. It’s not you being necessarily a good student or a good, like, all those boxes that they try to put us in. It’s you being a good you.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
King Moe: It’s you being a good you.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes, and that weird-ass thing that you think might be possible, you are the one to bring it through. Retired at 44 but not. You’re the one to show how to do that. We [laugh]—it’s that President Obama thing, right? Like, we are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the ones who are going to do this. We have to do it, and it’s choice-by-choice, and it really does start with take a fucking nap if you want to take a nap.
King Moe: Seriously, y’all. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Seriously [laugh], seriously. Oh, my gosh.
King Moe: Seriously.
Natalie Miller: OK, Moe, so how do the good people come and get more of your magic and goodness? Where shall we send them?
King Moe: I would love for you guys to follow me over on Instagram. You don’t see a lot of my work on Instagram but you see a lot of me. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: And I don’t mean physically visually; I mean, my heart. I show a lot of my heart, and just what I believe in, and what I stand for. So, that’s where you should start, and then my website. So, I’m @imkingmoe on Instagram. My website is imkingmoe.com. So, pretty simple.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
King Moe: Follow me over there. Interact with me. All the magic is really in my stories. That’s where you see the foolishness and the freeness of me being me.
Natalie Miller: Yes, and start following now so that in July when Moe and I—
King Moe: Yes. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —are together in [laugh] New Mexico making just incredible amounts of magic, you can be in on that, because it is going to be—
King Moe: It’s going to be a movie.
Natalie Miller: It’s going to be phenomenal. All right. Well, Moe, thank you so much for being here. You were the perfect person to talk to about conjuring self-confidence. I love you and appreciate you.
King Moe: Thank you. Same, same, same. Thank you for what you share, because I always learn something when I’m—when I do these. So, this has enhanced me and my morning. Thank you, Natalie. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Thank you, sweetheart. All right, y’all, thanks for listening. Bye for now.
[Music]
Thank you for listening to this episode of Mind Witchery. To catch all the magic I’m offering, please subscribe to the show, or if you want a little bit of weekly witchiness in your inbox, sign up for my Sunday Letter at mindwitchery.com. If today’s episode made you think of a friend or loved one, your sister, your neighbor, please tell them about it. We need more magic-makers in this troubled world.
Like all good things, this podcast is co-created by stellar people. Our music is by fabulous DJ, artist, and producer, Shammy Dee. Our gorgeous art is by the sorcerers at New Moon Creative. Mind Witchery is produced in conjunction with Particulate Media, K.O. Myers, executive producer. And I am Natalie Miller. Till next time.
End of recording