Conjuring Plant Magic
Whether or not you’re as obsessed with plants as we are, I think you’ll love this conversation between me and Kamili Bell Hill, creator of Plant Blerd.
Mostly, Kamili and I share the immense joy, comfort, and wisdom that plants bring into our lives. We talk about communing with fellow Plant People, give suggestions for people wanting to up their plant game, and even meander into Sorting Hat territory, assigning Hogwarts houses to a few plants.
Enjoy, and get you some plants!
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Mentioned:
You definitely want to follow Kamili’s Plant Blerd Instagram.
While you’re at it, also peep the Black People W.Plants Instagram
And do a lil merch shopping on the Plant Blerd website
And here’s Alex Hardy’s beautiful essay on Plant Fatherhood.
Make Magic:
Start simple. There are plenty of plants that love minimal tending.
And remember, there’s no such as a green thumb. Just like us, every plant has its own unique needs.
Don’t be afraid to experiment, to find the plants whose needs best reflect your capacity to give.
Transcript: Conjuring Plant Magic
Kamili Bell Hill: Everything is not for everyone, and that’s perfectly OK. You can have the things that are good for you, that work well for you, and live quite a happy, fulfilled life, without having everything that everyone else has [laugh], you know? Like, sometimes, we just need those reality checks.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, just an embracing of individuality—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: —which is so important in a world that wants to say, “Let me tell you what you need.” It’s like—
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly.
Natalie Miller: —you don’t know what I need.
[music] Welcome to Mind Witchery. I’m your host, Natalie Miller, and I’m so glad you’re here.
Hello, my witchy friend. Oh, my gosh, I’m beside myself. You need to know I’m beside myself because my guest today is kind of a big deal. She’s a little bit famous. She’s—
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] You hear her laughing but, it’s true, she is a little bit famous. I am joined here on Mind Witchery today by Kamili, otherwise known as PlantBlerd. Hello, Kamili.
Kamili Bell Hill: Hello, hello, hello. So happy to be here. That’s funny. I am not famous.
Natalie Miller: A little bit you are, though.
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: A little bit you are. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: I mean, it’s in a very, very particular and specific niche on Instagram for plants. That’s cute, though. I love it.
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Well, I happen to be a proud member of that niche, and so to—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes, I too, yes, exactly.
Natalie Miller: —to me, I am starstruck. And, so, we are—I asked Kamili to come and join me today to talk about plant wisdom, and also about what plants kind of teach us about care. And I just want to warn you all already. I have so many questions I want to ask Kamili, [laugh] so many topics—
Kamili Bell Hill: I love it. Fire away.
Natalie Miller: —of conversation. And, you know, likely the convo’s going to kind of meander around, but I’m so happy to invite you all along for the meandering. So, Kamili, like, my first question is, over the pandemic times, I think, many of us have seen a renewed interest or a sparked interest in houseplants, like, in taking—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —care of—
Kamili Bell Hill: For sure.
Natalie Miller: —houseplants, yeah. What do you think that’s about?
Kamili Bell Hill: Well, I think that it was primarily driven by being stuck at home, right, and you need something to do. Like, there is only but so many hours that you want to spend on your sofa, bingeing Netflix, right? So, plants just provided the perfect distraction. And, as they survive, they really are such an incredible mood booster. And didn’t we all need something that was like a happy space, a happy thing happening, because, you know, there was a point where it was so dire?
And I’m in New Rochelle, New York, which was like Ground Zero in the state. We were the first ones to go on complete and total containment zone lockdown, and that was scary. So, like, plants provided a, you know, a safe space like sanctuary, and a calm, like a [0:03:40]. So, I totally understand how everyone just was like, “I need the plants.” [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah. I want to dig into that a little bit because it’s like why—you know, some people baked sourdough bread. Some people, you know, started [laugh]—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —started sewing. But plants, there’s something magical that happens.
Kamili Bell Hill: Completely magical. It’s just the idea that, at least for me personally, and I think that you would find a lot of people agreeing, you kind of—you do. You feel like you’ve got these superpowers. Here’s this living thing. You bring it into your house out of its native environment, which is somewhere tropical and lush and beautiful.
I live in the Northeastern, which is dry and cold and dark during the winter. You know, March is still winter for us, and that’s when everything went on lockdown. And even despite those conditions, you’re able to make this thing thrive, you know.
You’re able to get new growth, and sometimes a bloom, if you’re lucky, and it just feels like—I don’t know—it feels like a superpower, for lack of a better way to describe it. It just feels like, you know, I’m doing this. That’s [laugh] for me? I’m making this happen?
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: It’s a little more satisfying than bread. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh] Right?
Natalie Miller: Yes. Well, also because, I mean, well, actually, I will say my partner did bake bread, and that does require its own attention.
Kamili Bell Hill: That’s true. That’s true. But once you eat it, it’s gone.
Natalie Miller: Yes. Well, and, for me, the kind of attention that plants evoke is so sensitive, you know?
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes, absolutely.
Natalie Miller: We become so sensitive to—well, it’s interesting, right? Like, what do plants need? They need water, and they need light, and they need maybe a little bit of food, and they need some kind of soil. And what I have found as I’ve become more and more and more of a plant mom is just an exquisite sensitivity to [laugh] the variations among all of those different elements.
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah, for sure. And they will reflect back your mood. You know, when I’m happy, and things are going great, my plants are looking great. When I’m feeling kind of like in a funk and not interested, my plants don’t look great. So, it becomes like this real like symbiotic relationship, right?
And I always say—you’ll hear me repeat it on Lives or in my captions—plant care is self-care. When I am unplugging, and checking in on my plants, I always feel like I’m really, you know, checking in on myself because I grow plants entirely for my own pleasure. Like, it has nothing to do with being a wife, a mother, a designer. It’s like no other hat except, you know, it’s just a pure guilty pleasure. I just do this because I enjoy it, for no other reason at all.
Natalie Miller: Or maybe not even guilty. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: No, it’s not guilty at all—
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: —not at all.
Natalie Miller: Just like the pleasure of—I don’t know. Like, I don’t want to sound too grandiose, except probably I do. It’s like I’m investing in life.
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: That’s exactly right, though.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right. And it’s like reconnecting with nature. I mean, it’s just a beautiful thing. There—I feel like there’s really no downside.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. You know, there’s a beautiful essay by Alex Hardy. Do you know this essay? Alex Hardy wrote this essay, and it’s called Deeply rooted: What plant fatherhood taught me about caring for myself. Have you read this?
Kamili Bell Hill: I know that title but I have not read it.
Natalie Miller: The essay is kind of about how he gets kind of his first apartment after couch surfing and even being homeless for a while, and he gets his first apartment. And because his grandmother told him, “You know, you can never have too many plants”—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —he fills this place with plants. And what he says—there’s this one moment I want to quote—he says, “As I regain my footing, and continue getting to know myself outside the lens of trauma and brokenness, the daily joys and routines of plant parenthood keep me rooted.”
Kamili Bell Hill: That is beautiful.
Natalie Miller: Oh, this is the best. This is what reminded me of what you just said. “I marvel at how they react to and reflect love and neglect.”
Kamili Bell Hill: That is beautiful and very well stated.
Natalie Miller: Right? And it’s that, like, react to and reflect, like you said, if I’m not feeling good, if I’m not taking care of myself—
Kamili Bell Hill: My plants show it. They do.
Natalie Miller: They do, right? Or if I’m not opening up my windows to let the light in—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —right, if I’m not attending to my environment, my plants totally let me know. They’re like, “Hey, you’re not present.”
Kamili Bell Hill: That’s exactly right. And it’s just kind of like—you know, it will make you, like, check yourself. You know, you’ll look over, and, like, oh, my god, you know, that Dieffenbachia is not doing well. Girl, what’s up? So, you go in, you’re checking on the plant, and it’s quiet, right? Your phone is down, unless you’re creating content, like [laugh] sometimes I’m known to do.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Or—
Natalie Miller: Unless you’re feeding the Gram. The Gram is very hungry. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, unless you’re feeding the Gram, you know, the monster. But, otherwise, I mean, even as much as I post, there’s so much that doesn’t end up there because this is real life, you know. It’s not—I’m not doing this for Instagram. This existed, it predated my account, and, you know, that just was kind of like a byproduct of having the plants. But that, you know, this was all happening already. So, in real life, I’m caring for these living beings, you know, my green children, and they just give me so much.
Natalie Miller: I love how they—they’re also just like children. [laugh] They’re all different.
Kamili Bell Hill: They are all different.
Natalie Miller: They all need different things.
Kamili Bell Hill: Very different needs.
Natalie Miller: We all have, like, harmony with some, and dissonance with others. Like, I can’t grow a string of anything, Kamili. I cannot. Like, a string of turtles, string of hearts, string of dolphins, they—no, we don’t—
Kamili Bell Hill: I know. What’s up with that? That is—that’s the topic of today’s discussion for—I’ve seen on a lot of different—I guess we can say it’s Trailing Tuesday, right? Oh, sorry, do you want to pause on that? I know—
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: —podcasts like to be evergreen.
Natalie Miller: [laugh] No. Trailing—
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It’s—we—everybody, we are recording this on Trailing Tuesday.
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh] Oh, yeah.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh] OK. But it’s like I hear that time and time again, and it’s like some plants, you know, we tend to want to just like really pour all of ourselves into them, right? But, just like you said, they’re all different. Some just don’t need as much as others. And I find that the strings of things, they really want to just be left alone. They’re really—
Natalie Miller: Well [laugh]—
Kamili Bell Hill: —introverted, you know. They’re not social plants. [laugh] It’s just, you know, they want a little bit of water, lots of light, and then just to be left to their own devices.
Natalie Miller: Oh, my gosh, I love that. And that would be why we don’t get along because I’m like, “Hi.”
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: “How you doing?” [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: You know, that is a great point, and I am as, you know, friendly and gregarious as I publicly appear. I’m quite introverted, so that’s why I think we get on quite well, me and those strings of things.
Natalie Miller: Are there any plant categories that you have more trouble with?
Kamili Bell Hill: Oh, god, all of the needier plants, I cannot—like the Calatheas, the Anthuriums, I just can’t. I can’t. I need my plants to be able to really adapt to my less-is-more kind of chill, Pisces, go-with-the-flow vibe. Like—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: —if you’re going to need more than that from me, it’s probably not going to work out. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] I love that.
Kamili Bell Hill: [0:11:53] I had like 20 Calatheas in the beginning of this journey, right? I’m down to four, and they are the last four that really don’t need much from me at all.
Natalie Miller: Oh, my gosh. I love it. And, meanwhile, I’m over here like, well, my Calatheas love their new humidifier—
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —humidifier number [laugh]—like number four of this year because they like—so, yeah, I love that. You know, and that’s something important for our friends because don’t you get those people who are like, “Oh, I don’t know how you do it. I don’t have a green thumb. I’m terrible with plants. I kill plants”? And I’m like—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: —but, like, not all plants are the same.
Kamili Bell Hill: No, not all plants are the same, and that’s my—my response is always you just haven’t found the right one. I mean, it’s like dating, right? Every single person that you’re going to date is not going to end up being the person you marry or, you know, spend the rest of your life with or whatever. So, you know, you got to try a couple until you find the match.
Natalie Miller: Until you find the match, until you find the resonance.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: And I think like, for me, when I think about what I learned from my plants, that’s kind of part of it, right, is that—you know, I’ll say, Kamili, something I talk about on this show a lot is how we all have many sides to ourselves, right?
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: So, here you are, you’re Kamili, PlantBlerd. You are introverted and, at the same time, you’re very upfront and very generous with sharing kind of the—you know, a view of your plant life. So, there’s more than one Kamili, right?
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: There are several different ones.
Kamili Bell Hill: There are.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. And for me, like, plants actually remind me of that.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: That there are different parts of me that need different things.
Kamili Bell Hill: That’s so true, right. We’re multifaceted, you know, and we have different needs, and we’ll switch up, right? You know, you’re not the same person every single day.
Natalie Miller: Right.
Kamili Bell Hill: Tuesday, maybe I’ll want the needy plant. [laugh] You know, maybe I’ll feel like I want to rise to that challenge. And then by Friday, I’m like, yeah, no, tried that. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: I’m going to go back over here.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, or it’s like I can explore that part of myself. Like, now that you’ve kind of talked about like, you know, how, “No, listen, strings of things, they just don’t want so much love from you,” I’m like—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —oh—
Kamili Bell Hill: [0:14:24]
Natalie Miller: —I would like to practice giving less love, actually. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Like, that would probably be a balancing practice for me, and it makes me want to try it out, yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, exactly. And, you know, you do, you just learn a lot about yourself. It just makes you realize and kind of really bring—makes it tangible. Everything is not for everyone, and that’s perfectly OK. You can have the things that are good for you, that work well for you, and live quite a happy, fulfilled life, without having everything that everyone else has [laugh], you know? Like, sometimes, we just need those reality checks.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, just an embracing of individuality—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: —which is so important in a world that wants to say, “Let me tell me what you need.” It’s like you—
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly.
Natalie Miller: —you don’t know what I need. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly, and embracing what you have, right? It’s like, I mean, the same would go for people whose collections are made up entirely of common plants. Those are beautiful collections. You don’t have to chase unicorn plants, rare—and they’re not even rare. They’re just commercially rare, which is different. You know, they’re not actually rare.
You know, you can’t call a plant rare if there’s a greenhouse full of it, and it just costs a lot of money. That’s not, you know, how we define “rare.” But just find satisfaction. Being satisfied is not settling if your needs are actually met, so you’re satisfied. Be satisfied.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: So, it helps you if—I find that they kind of like teach you that too, you know.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. It’s almost in, like, in figuring out what makes the plant happy, you know, is it this window or is it this window? Do you need filtered water? My Calatheas need filtered water. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: [0:16:21]
Natalie Miller: Do you need filtered water or are you—
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —are you OK? Are you OK with tap water, like, you know?
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: Now, oh, the weather’s changed. What do you need now? It’s that kind of—again, that sort of like, hey, be present—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —notice—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right. You have to be present.
Natalie Miller: —notice your needs, and tend to them.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: So, what made you actually start that Instagram.
Kamili Bell Hill: So, I mean, I think that my origin story is probably the same as everyone’s in terms of, you know, the account background. My non-plant friends and family members were tired of hearing about my plants. So, one day, I just was like, you know what, I’m going to start an account dedicated to plants, and maybe I’ll find some other like-minded people. That was purely like the goal.
I just thought maybe there had to be like, you know, a few others out there. I never, in my wildest dream, thought that it would lead to this. You know, I didn’t know that there was this whole giant online community—
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: —with plants. I had no idea. And it’s like where have they been all my life?
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: So, it’s just been like such an incredibly happy discovery I’ve made, like genuine connections and real friends. I always said it was so weird when people would make friends online, and it’s like, no, it’s not weird at all. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Oh, yeah—
Kamili Bell Hill: It’s actually really great.
Natalie Miller: —100% agree. And maybe that’s my kind of resonant nerdiness, but, like, if we can talk about something we have in common—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —that is going to be so much easier for me than [laugh] like socializing in a—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, trying to find the common—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: It’s like I already know. We already know that we have this in common, right?
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes. No.
Kamili Bell Hill: And who of us could not just talk about plants for hours?
Natalie Miller: Yeah, yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: You know, so, it’s really—it’s a really great and easy way to connect. But what I also love about it is there’s so many overlaps, you know, like [laugh], within that plant community. Then we have, you know, my fellow Harry Potter geeks, my Star Wars nerds. So, there’s like all these different, like, kind of common layers, and it’s just been amazing.
Natalie Miller: It’s beautiful. Well, I have to say, one thing that I find that you are especially skilled in, Kamili, is fostering a conversation. Like—
Kamili Bell Hill: Oh, thank you.
Natalie Miller: —you know what I mean though? Some people show up on the Gram to be like, “Don’t you wish you were hot like me?”
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, exactly. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Right? Even in the plant community, some people are like, “Don’t you wish?”
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah, even in the plant community, yeah.
Natalie Miller: Yeah. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: We are not above that, yeah.
Natalie Miller: No, no. And, listen, like, again, I embrace individuality, and I think that is beautiful. But something that you do that I really appreciate and love is you show up, and you’re like, “Hey, my plants are making me think about this topic. What do you think”—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —“about this topic?”
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly.
Natalie Miller: And then a gorgeous conversation ensues.
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes. Well, that’s like the best thing because it’s like it’s community, you know, and it’s like let’s get to know each other. Let’s have fun chats. Sometimes, they’ll be serious. But, you know, let’s engage. Let’s really engage; not just like hit likes on each other’s posts. Let’s really kind of like dig into it.
Natalie Miller: And have a conversation, yeah, I love it.
Kamili Bell Hill: And have a conversation.
Natalie Miller: I love it. It’s so beautiful. You’re also super educational. Like [laugh]—
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —I have learned so much about plants, about plant care in your posts. It’s just I super appreciate that as well. So, was that something that you wanted to do, or is that something that you’ve noticed people like? Like, how did you start offering more education?
Kamili Bell Hill: Well, you know, it’s interesting. I really try to kind of like walk a thin line with that, and be very careful, because there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to plant care, right? And what works for me in my house in my specific environment might not work for you in your house, your environment, where you live, the plants that you’re keeping. So, I just kind of like try to dole out what I’m doing. Give it a try. See if it works. If it doesn’t, try something else.
And I just really encourage everyone to just kind of like do the trial and error, and don’t be afraid to kill plants. Like, learn that way on their own. I don’t ever want to hold out myself as some expert. I don’t want people to think of me as an expert, because I’m over here killing plants too. So, it’s like [laugh]—
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: —you know [laugh], you’re seeing the nice, healthy ones. You didn’t see the one that I just dropped into the trash. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Exactly, exactly. Oh, my gosh, that makes me think of this—I was watching a Plantarina video once. Do you ever watch her videos?
Kamili Bell Hill: Occasionally.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, she has—she just was once recording this video, and she was like, “Oh, there’s fungus gnats.” And I was like, yes, Plantarina has fungus gnats. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes, yes.
Natalie Miller: Like, hallelujah.
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: We’re all just learning as we go. And there are some accounts that have these hard and fast rules. But that doesn’t work. Well, it does. So, it might not work for you—
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: —but it does work for me. So—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: —even when I’m, like, giving information, it’s really just kind of like letting you know what I’m doing, and kind of like suggestions, but never with the intent that this is what you should be doing because there’s so many different ways to grow plants.
Natalie Miller: Well, and there’s that celebration of individuality again, right, which I really love. Like, that—or individuality and also all of the variables—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —that go into—
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly.
Natalie Miller: —being a human, right, being a human, having a certain kind of plant, right? Like, that, no, actually, like, you and I can resonant, and we can connect, and also we don’t actually live the same life. Like, we live differently, and we have different homes, and different tendencies, and all of the things. So, yes, we have very similar core needs, but we’re not all the same—you and me and plants.
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly, yeah, there are no right, hard rules.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: I mean, the only rule is plants need light. They need light. They need water. Beyond that, you’re going to find different ways to kind of get the job done.
Natalie Miller: You know, you were talking a little bit about discovering this whole plant community, and I had that too but, actually, in—and I want to give them some love—in a Facebook group. I’m a member of this Facebook group called DC Plant Swaps & Trades.
Kamili Bell Hill: OK.
Natalie Miller: And I have to tell you I have grown my collection in there. You know how sometimes you’ll buy a plant at the hardware store, and it’ll say, like, “assorted foliage”? [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: And you’re like—
Kamili Bell Hill: Or “houseplant.” That’s the one that I really love.
Natalie Miller: Exactly. You’re like, “What are you?” So, you can go in the group with a picture, and people are like, “Oh, yeah, that’s what this is.”
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: Like, they’ll ID it for you. Tons of advice around care, around pests, around like when to repot and, you know, all of those kinds of things. And it is the most generous, like, lovely community of people, and, yes, we’re talking about plants, kind of like on your Instagram page. Yeah, we’re talking about plants, but we’re also kind of—we’re being humans in community in a very beautiful, generous way.
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: Do you know what I mean?
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah, yeah, completely. And the local groups are great. But I have found that on Facebook, the—because after I started my Instagram, then I checked out some of the Facebook groups, and they were like general ones, like, you know, Houseplant Addicts and—that weren’t like specific to any area. And, somehow [laugh], fights would always break out in those groups because of exactly what I would say—what I’m talking about previously about the rules of what to do. Sometimes, people get so kind of like entrenched in their way of doing things—
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: —and then when someone else would suggest, “Well, this is how I do it,” and it’s like that’s so silly.
Natalie Miller: You know, that makes me feel really extra fortunate—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: —[laugh] because, you know, when you—you wrote a post maybe a couple of months ago where you—and I’m going to quote you now, Kamili.
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh] OK.
Natalie Miller: You said, “It’s plant people. It’s not a race. It’s a creed.”
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: You know the one I’m talking about?
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah, I do know that one.
Natalie Miller: OK. So, here’s what you said. [laugh] You said, “Plant people know that Black lives matter, love is love, ain’t no such thing as an illegal human, gender is fluid, climate change is real, and they’re anti-racist as fuck.”
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes.
Natalie Miller: “If none or only some of this applies to you, then you are not a plant person. Rather, you are just a person who has plants.”
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes.
Natalie Miller: And I’m like, yeah, my—I have to say—my community, my plant community, is full of Plant People—capital P’s—and I’m so grateful for that.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right. Right, because there are some people—I mean, going back to the unicorn plants—there are some people who are just like in it for status and show, and it’s just—that’s just—
Natalie Miller: So, you found that in Instagram, and like where else have you found that? Like, where have you found this beautiful, like, these pockets of, capital P, Plant People?
Kamili Bell Hill: Well, the Plant People I found on Instagram. But my real people who I surround myself in real life, you know, we live by that creed also, so. And, slowly, I am turning them into Plant People. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: You know, at everyone opportunity, I give them a plant.
Natalie Miller: Yes, me too. I am slowly—people will send me like a little shot, a little photo, like, “Look what I got.”
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: I’m like, “Yes.”
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I know. I love it.
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah. I’ve totally plant-influenced many people who had previously said, “Oh, I can’t grow plants.” “Oh, yeah, sure you can. Here, let me help you.”
Natalie Miller: Yeah. Well, it’s this beautiful thing, right, where it’s sort of like we’re like, hi, we celebrate individuality. We want to be present and sensitive. We want to invite life into our worlds. We want to care for and tend, like, these plant beings. So, yeah, it makes sense that, for many of us, those values, that creed, is kind of how we roll.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, exactly.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: You know, it’s important, like, kind of like just rules to live by. Now, in that regard, those are the rules. [laugh] You should live by those rules.
Natalie Miller: Some beautiful things have happened in my plant community. Like, we had this really fun Juneteenth exchange where white group members were giving plants to Black group members, just like—
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: —here—
Kamili Bell Hill: [0:27:42]
Natalie Miller: —like, plant reparations [laugh], you know, really?
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Which was so sweet. There have been people who have had, like, financial emergencies where they’ve had to, like, pay a medical bill or buy a plane ticket, and they’re like, “OK, I’m going to, like, sell a bunch of my collection,” and other members in the group will come in, and they’ll be like, “Here, you know, buy this Monstera, and Venmo her”—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —“and then send me the receipt, and you can pick up the plant.” It’s just so beautiful. Like, I—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: —I can’t tell you how heartwarming. So, plant friends out there, if you don’t have a plant community like that, start one, because they are [laugh]—
Kamili Bell Hill: Start one.
Natalie Miller: They’re so good.
Kamili Bell Hill: That’s exactly right, because you start it, and they will come, right?
Natalie Miller: You start it, and they will come, yeah, absolutely.
Kamili Bell Hill: Because if you’re out there looking for that person, that person that you’re looking for is looking for you too.
Natalie Miller: They are, they are. And, you know, like, social media gets, I think, rightfully, criticized a lot for, like, its shallowness, and the way that—you know, I mean, we know that, by design, it fosters, like, dissent in some ways. But there are some beautiful ways to use it, like the way that you use Instagram in this generous [laugh], like, educational, thought-provoking way. And then in ways like, you know, these kind of groups—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: —that where, like, real, real, real connection happens. Like, these are not internet friends. Like, they become life friends.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right. These are—like, they become friends that I would have in my house. You know, like, they’re people that I genuinely like. I know they’re good people. We’ve talked, you know, for hours. And there are pockets of, like, literal [laugh] fresh air on social media if you look for them.
Natalie Miller: And then, like, feed them, right, like [laugh]—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —just like our plants, like. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Just like the plants, exactly.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, when you find them, visit them—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, nurture them, exactly.
Natalie Miller: —and contribute in those conversations, ask questions, all the things, yeah. All right. So, Kamili, I thought one thing we could do is give a little bit of—oh, I don’t love the word “advice”—but a little bit of guidance to different kinds of plant sort of people. So, there’s our very, very, very beginners—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes.
Natalie Miller: —or even actually before that, let’s say the people who are convinced that they can’t parent plants. And, so, you kind of already said just get some plants—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —and kill some plants, but figure it out.
Kamili Bell Hill: Figure it out. There’s no such thing as a green thumb. Like, you just learn. It just takes time, care, and attention. And there are some plants—not that you can’t kill them because I just this very week killed a Snake plant. You can.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: But it really takes some doing, you know. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It really is, yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: They are so forgiving. So, like, start with the plants that have that reputation for loyalty, like ZZ plants, Snake plants, Pothos—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: —and build your confidence with them, you know.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: Just start there. Don’t dive into—I don’t know—you know, a Monstera Albo Variegate. Don’t go there. Just because you see it on Instagram, and it’s pretty, don’t let that be the starting place.
Natalie Miller: Yes, totally agree—totally agree. Yeah, I think, like, yeah, a Pothos or a Snake plant or a ZZ. Friends, that is a great beginning because they are loyal.
Kamili Bell Hill: They’re loyal and they’re absolutely beautiful.
Natalie Miller: They are beautiful.
Kamili Bell Hill: I have—let’s see. Let me count on my hands here—I have, I think, six ZZ plants. I love them. They are just—I love the green one. I love the Raven. I mean, you can’t go wrong, you just can’t.
Natalie Miller: No, they are. They’re so beautiful. They are. OK.
Kamili Bell Hill: They’re so beautiful.
Natalie Miller: Is it fair to say, Kamili, they are the Hufflepuffs of plants? [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: They are the Hufflepuffs of plants.
Natalie Miller: They’re like, “Hey, I’m here. I’m here for you.”
Kamili Bell Hill: They are loyal and noble, yeah.
Natalie Miller: OK. I love that, yeah. So, OK, so then how about—
Kamili Bell Hill: Because then who would be the Slytherin of plants then?
Natalie Miller: I know the Slytherin of plants.
Kamili Bell Hill: I’m going to have to say they’re the Calathea. I’m going to have to say it.
Natalie Miller: They’re like entitled. They are entitled as fuck, Calathea.
Kamili Bell Hill: They are.
Natalie Miller: They’re like—
Kamili Bell Hill: They are. And even some of the Alocasia because they are spider mite [0:32:08 holes?]—only evil. And I’m a Slytherin.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: I am a Slytherin.
Natalie Miller: I love it.
Kamili Bell Hill: But I know there are some of us who are—who live that reputation. We are bad. We are bad. And I love Alocasia. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Yeah. I’m even thinking with Calatheas, you know, how Calatheas like—they change their—
Kamili Bell Hill: They change their look.
Natalie Miller: You—they’re like, “You don’t even know me.”
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: “You don’t know me.” Like [laugh]—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: I’m like, “I’m open. I’m closed.” They’re very magical.
Kamili Bell Hill: They also love spider mites.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: Huh.
Natalie Miller: And fungus gnats, actually. Fungus gnats are super happy.
Kamili Bell Hill: And fungus gnats because you got to keep them so moist. And mealybugs. I mean, it was just a bad combination all around.
Natalie Miller: [laugh] I know. But they’re so compelling.
Kamili Bell Hill: They are so beautiful.
Natalie Miller: They’re [laugh] so compelling. They’re so gorgeous, oh, my gosh.
Kamili Bell Hill: They just are gorgeous. Right now, I still have a [0:33:02 Feshada?], a Rattlesnake, a Peacock, and I always mispronounce the name. I think it’s [0:33:08 Miacona?] and a Corona. Those are the last four standing.
Natalie Miller: Oh, they’re so pretty though. Yeah, I have a Rattlesnake that I love, who I actually—she was happy enough that I was able to divide her into two, which was amazing.
Kamili Bell Hill: That is, because I wouldn’t dare. I tried that with my White Fusion.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: It died immediately.
Natalie Miller: It was like, “You chose poorly.” [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah [laugh], that’s right, exactly. The force was not with me.
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: It died immediately.
Natalie Miller: I love it. I love it. OK. So, how about for our plant, like, beginners, so people who, like, they’re not convinced that they can’t have plants, but they’re excited to try? Like, where—
Kamili Bell Hill: They’re excited to try. So, now, they’ve grown a couple of ZZs. They’ve had some success with Snakes, so they’re feeling confident and sure. So, then I would say move on to the Monstera Deliciosa. I think that the green, just the dark green foliage, she’s a grower. She’s a shower. She’s loyal, gorgeous.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: Anything in the Aglaonema family, any Chinese Evergreen, also super loyal, super easy. And, I mean, the amount of variety available in the Philodendron family is—
Natalie Miller: Oh, my gosh.
Kamili Bell Hill: You know, you can hardly go wrong.
Natalie Miller: Well, that’s what I was going to say. Those Philo…because Philo, right, like, philosopher, philo…like, it’s “lover,” right. And, so, the—I just—I think Philodendrons are just so—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah, they’re great.
Natalie Miller: They’re great. And there is a huge variety you can get, like a—
Kamili Bell Hill: Huge variety.
Natalie Miller: —a Prince of Orange, which is like what? It’s brand new leaves come out orange, oh.
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes, the Brazils, I love. The Brazils look like watercolor paintings, each leaf. They’re just—
Natalie Miller: Listen, I have a Brazil hanging in my dining room window right now, and I’m not even kidding. Every time I go in there, I’m like, oh, my—
Kamili Bell Hill: Blown away, right?
Natalie Miller: My breath is taken away by this plant, it’s so beautiful. And it’s funny actually. When I—so [laugh], sweet listener, when I was like enticing Kamili to come on the podcast, I was like, “We could talk about like what Harry Potter characters would be if they were plants.” And I actually think this plant reminds me of Hermione Granger. This plant—
Kamili Bell Hill: Oh.
Natalie Miller: —is so Hermione Granger. She’s got that, like, flame. But she’s also kind of trusty, right? Like, she’s not—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: She’s not really a drama queen. She’s not—
Kamili Bell Hill: No, not a drama queen at all.
Natalie Miller: No, she’s—
Kamili Bell Hill: Not at all.
Natalie Miller: No, she’s trusty and, yeah, she’s a little dramatic, but it’s not in a—it’s like in a—I don’t know—in an inherent way.
Kamili Bell Hill: In a totally harmless way.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes, yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: You know, and even plants that, you know, when people say they’re dramatic, I’m like, are they dramatic or are they just communicating?
Natalie Miller: Right.
Kamili Bell Hill: You know, like, when the Peace Lily goes all [0:36:16 weepy weep?]?
Natalie Miller: [laugh] That’s exactly what I was thinking then.
Kamili Bell Hill: You know, it’s just letting you know it’s thirsty.
Natalie Miller: Yes. Yeah, she is, she’s just thirsty. And probably, PS, you’re thirsty too. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, exactly, exactly.
Natalie Miller: She’s like, “Have we had water?” And you’re like, “No, we haven’t, actually.”
Kamili Bell Hill: We have not.
Natalie Miller: “You haven’t and I haven’t,” yeah. OK. So, how about for the people who, OK, they like plants? They’re like, “Oh, yeah, I have like a little collection.” What’s next for them?
Kamili Bell Hill: I would say that if they only have Aroids, to move on to Hoyas.
Natalie Miller: Oh, Hoyas, yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: Hoyas.
Natalie Miller: Gosh.
Kamili Bell Hill: Move on to the Hoyas. Add some Hoyas in your life. You will never look back.
Natalie Miller: They are so beautiful. I also wonder, Kamili, if once you kind of have a little collection going, it might be time to play with propagation.
Kamili Bell Hill: Oh, for sure.
Natalie Miller: Because if you really want to feel like a wizard—like a witch or a wizard—just do some plant propagating. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: I mean, you should literally always be propagating. Every time you get a new plant, you should be taking a piece of that plant as insurance in case the mama plant should, for whatever reason, not survive. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: OK, that right there is a pro tip. I [laugh] do not do that, and that is smart as fuck. Like, that is so—
Kamili Bell Hill: Always.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: Always. There’s literally always something here rooting in every corner.
Natalie Miller: Oh, no, for me too—for me too. I mean, I had to start hanging them from the windows because the windowsills are like, “We’re full.” [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, yeah, everywhere—everywhere—every type of plant. You know, the only plant that has never been cut in my entire collection, I believe, yeah, it’s my Green Monstera Deliciosa. And I’m not—I mean, I just—I have such affection for that plant, I just—I don’t know—I just haven’t been able to bring myself to cut her, and she really has, like, outgrown all of the space here. No matter how many times I’ve staked it, you know, no matter where I put it—I mean, she’s huge—I just can’t do it, I can’t. But everything else, you know, I’ve taken little snips of it, and I have rooted it, and there are multiples everywhere.
Natalie Miller: Yes, multiples, and then giveaways, right, I love to give plants—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah, giveaways.
Natalie Miller: —as gifts. That is—like, that’s maybe another thing to do is spread the gospel. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes, spread the gospel. And it’s like, you know, people—I often hear, “I don’t believe in them.” But if you’re one to say, “OK, no new plants,” you’re on a plant ban, or there’s a moratorium, an easy way around that is just to propagate.
Natalie Miller: Yes—
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh] Like—
Natalie Miller: —100%.
Kamili Bell Hill: —you can’t buy any new plants, but no one said that you couldn’t clone a few new plants.
Natalie Miller: That is so good. We’re like zig-zagging here, but I can’t stop thinking who are the Gryffindor of plants?
Kamili Bell Hill: That’s a hard question for me as a Slytherin—
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: —because I have a love-hate relationship with that house, you know? I would say that the Gryffindors of plants are probably the Dieffenbachia, and even maybe the Alocasia. You know, I’ll take them out of the Slytherin house. They give everyone the perception that they’re so good and they’re so—you know, such loyal fans. But they host spider mites—
Natalie Miller: [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: —all the time. When you least expect it, you turn around, and they’re covered in webs. And what’s worse is the Alocasia will, with every new leaf, drop an old one.
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: They’re just not as good as they want to make everyone think that they are. They’re just as dark as the rest of us.
Natalie Miller: Just as dark as the rest of us. Oh, my gosh, Kamili, I feel like now—now—I know you. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: That—I was like, mm-hmm, I definitely feel that, and—
Kamili Bell Hill: Yeah.
Natalie Miller: —and I have to tell you I have some Gryffindor. I think I am a Gryffindor. But I try to be a conscientious one. I try to—I don’t try to Harry around. I try to—
Kamili Bell Hill: Well, my youngest is a Gryffindor, so, I mean, it’s—I, you know, I know there’s some good ones. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: There are some good ones. We just have to be—we have to be careful. We have to be careful with ourselves.
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes [laugh], in that quest for—you know, to be a hero, sometimes, you know, you just need to be brought down a little bit. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Or, yeah, it’s like, sometimes, you need to just check yourself. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes. Right. You get sort of lost. You know, you lose sight of the mission and, you know—
Natalie Miller: Yes, in the glory—in the glory—we do.
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes, in the glory. [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It’s true. It’s totally true. So, for the people who are listening who are like the ones in the plant community who have the advice to give, the ones who have these big, beautiful collections, the ones who can rehab anything, and grow stuff from a chunk and, like [laugh], for those people—
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: You know, I have to say, like, those are above my sort of station [laugh], for sure, those folks. But, like, what do you want to say to them?
Kamili Bell Hill: I want to say to them, “Don’t gatekeep,” you know? Like, I do sometimes feel like once, you know, they’ve acquired certain specimens, and a certain Instagram status, don’t gatekeep. And, also, do not be a part of a little bit of a problem that I see, like, seeping into the community, like, with plant-flipping, and some of the prices are just like—they’re a little bit outrageous right now.
It’s like don’t allow that ugly, like, underbelly of capitalism to kind of come in and corrupt the plant community. You know, don’t—like, our plants are not for profit. And I just—I don’t know. I kind of hate that. I hate that aspect of it.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, I know what you mean. It’s such an interesting kind of line, right? Because, on the one hand, it’s sort of like we should value plants. And I mean this in terms of, like, food. You know, if I go into the store, I know I’m going to pay way more for a fish than I’m going to pay for organic strawberries, and that’s kind of a problem because I know that those organic strawberries were picked by people who are, you know, working in—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —you know, exploitative conditions.
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly. I mean, that’s the whole other side of it. It’s like when you see some of these plant shops that are in gentrified areas here in New York, and you’re charging thousands of dollars for plants, and the people who—I don’t know. There’s just something that just is inherently wrong about that for me, and especially when you consider where they’re coming from, the plants themselves, where they’ve been imported from. They’re—
Natalie Miller: Yes.
Kamili Bell Hill: —being imported from communities of color. You know, Indigenous people are harvesting the plants. They’re [0:43:41] them, and they’re not seeing any of that money that is then made over here. I don’t know. I saw in a Facebook group the other day, someone posted, “I’m feeling bored. Show me what you have. My budget is 20,000.” Really, for plants?
Natalie Miller: [laugh] Yeah, wow. Yeah. No, I love that point though. I think, Kamili, like that—that’s really the thing, right? It’s like it’s not that plants aren’t valuable, and expertise isn’t valuable.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, right.
Natalie Miller: It’s like what’s the world we are creating together?
Kamili Bell Hill: Exactly. What is the end goal? Like, $20,000? So, that is just profiteering, you know. Like, that—there’s nothing good about that, and where’s the good in someone selling a plant for $20,000? It didn’t cost—I don’t know. I have a lot of feelings surrounding that, and none of them good.
Natalie Miller: Yeah.
Kamili Bell Hill: And, so, I really steer clear. And, I mean, I have some unicorns. I’m not saying don’t get—because, I mean, we love plants. I have all of the Monsteras, I think, except for an Aurea and a Sport. I’m not interested in those. But I do have the Albo. I have the Thai, which I won in a giveaway. [laugh]
But I try to find small sellers who—they’re just looking to make a reasonable amount of money. They’re not—you know, it’s not turning into this kind of elitism, you know. I’m not begrudging anyone from making money. But when you’re creating this whole atmosphere of now we have a class—we have class amongst plants—that’s ridiculous.
Natalie Miller: Yes, yes, totally. And that, you know, what—one thing that I’ve really appreciated in my plant community is swaps.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: And, you know, and—
Kamili Bell Hill: That’s how I got my Pink Princess, right, in a trade.
Natalie Miller: Yeah, in a trade, in a swap, in a giveaway that we—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: I just went to a swap the other day, and there was this raffle with rare plants, and all the proceeds were going to a charity that supports LGBTQ work, like, very—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —very cool. And, so, it’s like, yeah, that’s the world we want to build and live in, right?
Kamili Bell Hill: Right, exactly.
Natalie Miller: So, let’s do that, yeah? You know, Kamili, I think, you know, in that article I quoted, Alex Hardy’s article, he said, you know, he remembers his grandmother saying, “You can never have too many plants.” I remember my grandmother’s Jade plant. [laugh] I can see it. Like, I can see her Philodendron hanging in the window. I can see her Jade plant sitting in the dining room. I’m curious if, for you, there’s something with plants and legacy, inheritance. Like, what does that conjure for you?
Kamili Bell Hill: Well, there definitely is some of that because, you know, Black people, we are growers. That is why, you know, we were kidnapped from our home, and brought here, if we’re going to go all the way back like that. So, I do feel like it’s kind of in our DNA. We know how to grow things, and my grandmother was a grower, her grandmother was a grower, her mom, and it’s just been passed down generationally, I feel.
I cannot remember any time in my life where plants weren’t there, you know, where someone wasn’t growing something. So, it definitely is legacy. There is a connection to the past, and something I hope to pass on to my kids. They’re not interested yet, but, you know, I’m not giving up hope. [laugh] So, there definitely is a deeper connection to the act and art of growing, for me, and I think probably for a lot of other Black growers.
Natalie Miller: And there’s something really—I don’t know—beautiful, poignant about taking a power—
Kamili Bell Hill: Right.
Natalie Miller: —a power that has been so horribly exploited, and then turning it to joy and to pleasure—
Kamili Bell Hill: Absolutely.
Natalie Miller: —and to building plant-people community who live by the creed.
Kamili Bell Hill: Right. I agree. It’s revolutionary, especially if you grow food. Now, I have not gone into that. But it’s all really kind of like taking something back, you know, and just kind of like reshaping what our connection to it was, and reclaiming it.
Natalie Miller: It’s so beautiful. It’s so beautiful. So, my sweet listener, that [laugh] and much, much more is why you totally want to follow Kamili’s @plantberd account on Instagram. She always is looking at plants from all kinds of beautiful, evocative, educational, and then just fun and joyous angles. Kamili, thank you so much for being here today.
Kamili Bell Hill: Thank you.
Natalie Miller: Please tell my sweet listener how they can be in touch with you, how they can find you.
Kamili Bell Hill: They can find me always on @plantblerd on Instagram, and they can also check out my curated page on @blackpeople.wplants, and I recently launched a website, plantblerd.com, so you can find me in all those different places.
Natalie Miller: Oh, my gosh, and @blackpeople.wplants is—it’s hot, Kamili. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: It’s a sexy account. [laugh]
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: I’m always like, whoa, OK.
Kamili Bell Hill: [laugh]
Natalie Miller: Beautiful people and beautiful plants is very lush.
Kamili Bell Hill: Beautiful people and beautiful plants, exactly.
Natalie Miller: And everybody on plantblerd.com, you will find merch!
Kamili Bell Hill: Merch!
Natalie Miller: Merch to die for.
Kamili Bell Hill: Yes, for all your plant nerd needs.
Natalie Miller: All your plant nerd needs. I love it so much. Kamili, thank you so much for joining me today.
Kamili Bell Hill: Thank you so much, Natalie. This was great.
Natalie Miller: Ah, my pleasure. All right. OK, listener, bye for now.
[music] Thank you for listening to this episode of Mind Witchery. To catch all the magic I’m offering, please subscribe to the show, or if you want a little bit of weekly witchiness in your inbox, sign up for my Sunday Letter at mindwitchery.com. If today’s episode made you think of a friend or loved one, your sister, your neighbor, please tell them about it. We need more magic-makers in this troubled world.
Like all good things, this podcast is co-created by stellar people. Our music is by fabulous DJ, artist, and producer, Shammy Dee. Our gorgeous art is by the sorcerers at New Moon Creative. Mind Witchery is produced in conjunction with Particulate Media, K.O. Myers, executive producer. And I am Natalie Miller. Till next time.
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